Comments on: Veggie no more!

By: John

John — Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:01:14 +0000

My vegetarian friends always led me to believe that Zze’s concerns about vitamin deficiencies and the like are easily managed by varying your vegetarian diet a bit and consuming the odd dietary supplement. However, it strikes me that for someone who is an active bodybuilder and paying close attention to their health there may be a little more of a noticeable effect.

The bottom line, however, is that first and foremost I’m with Simon on this one…

By: simon

simon — Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:36:45 +0000

I can’t speak for everyone but I’m pretty sure most people eat meat because it just tastes good

By: Zze

Zze — Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:12:04 +0000

I am not ex-vegan but these days I just became a ex-semi-vegetarian… Let us be frank PEOPLE JUST DON�T EAT MEAT FOR TASTE, BUT FOR ITS NUTRITION VALUE. Meat is not that tasteful to me. But after 15 days of being ovo-lacto-vegetarian and then 4 months being “pollotarian” ( not eating red meat only ) I was considering being vegetarian… my main issue was the lack of decent Iron sources in vegetarian diet. It made me come back to chicken and chicken guts “til I find a good Iron alternative”. And I found. Being the cheap it is, I could rely on supplements and be ovo-lacto-vegetarian. But then, another issue got me: I read somewhere that the stocks of B 12 are below the normal stocks than meat eaters… and plus, on this weekend I discovered about creatine. Creatine is only found in red meats and its responsible for muscular hypertrophy. I do some weight lifting and I felt some loss of strengh on adopting a red meat free diet, but then , I tought it was merely impression. this weekend I decide to make a test: I ate 2 portions of Calabrezza sausage and, without ANY exercise that day, I felt my muscles stronger and more “buffed”. and , contrary to the Iron supplementation, I discovered that Creatine supplementaion is NOT unexpensive. So I decided to accept that I am omnivorous and I need to eat some meat … I�d prefer not to, but … humans are omnivores, not herbivores

By: Ray

Ray — Mon, 03 Feb 2003 02:15:44 +0000

if i have a diabetic friend coming over for dinner, then i damn make sure that i accomodate for them.

Agreed.

if i then go to their house i don’t expect to get sugared parfait for dessert.

I’d consider it hospitable for them not to limit guests to their own diet. For instance, if you have sugar in your coffee, would you feel it reasonable for them to refuse to provide it for your after-dinner coffee?

By: simon

simon — Sun, 02 Feb 2003 02:21:43 +0000

“surely one meal once in a meal [while?] without an animal involved will not kill you.”

Imagine if you said to a vegan “Surely one hamburgers not going to kill you”?? If I invited a vegan for dinner I’d make sure I gave them the sort of thing they’d normally eat but I’d expect to eat meat at there place.

“No one freaks out if someone doesn’t eat broccoli, or mushrooms…”
You should live my life! I’ve grown up with people being surprised that I eat next to no vegetables

I think this quote from my big fat greek wedding will end this nicely

Toula “He’s a vegeterian!”
Ma gasps “It’s okay! I make lamb!”

By: catboy

catboy — Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:39:04 +0000

in regards to the reciprocal eating context, it is just a common courtesy, regardless of whether it is a moral or diet issue. if i have a diabetic friend coming over for dinner, then i damn make sure that i accomodate for them. if i then go to their house i don’t expect to get sugared parfait for dessert. most meat eaters find the idea of a meatless dinner served them to be a most horrendous suggestion. surely one meal once in a meal without an animal involved will not kill you.

By: Ray

Ray — Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:07:22 +0000

As to “not the food per se [but breaking] fairly ingrained conventions of reciprocal hospitality”… umm, that only makes any sense by defining meat-eating a priori as right.

No such assumption intended. All I’m saying is that (in my experience anyway) vegans generally expect to be accommodated, but won’t return the courtesy.

By: Zed

Zed — Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:59:02 +0000

Let’s see, there’s “people need meat,” “vegans don’t get enough protein,” and various health arguments, generally coming from people in worse shape than I am. There’s the tedious jokes on the theme of “you’re an evolutionary backslider.” There’s baiting on “but agricultural combines kill mice and fields are fertilized with fishmeal, so you’re really just a hypocrite.”
And it comes up even in contexts in which there has been no special accommodation. Again, if you tried it, you’d see… no matter how innocuous a vegan might attempt to be, there are meat-eaters who just won’t get over it.

As to “not the food per se [but breaking] fairly ingrained conventions of reciprocal hospitality”… umm, that only makes any sense by defining meat-eating a priori as right. In a hypothetical mostly vegan world, the same could be said of meat-eating. Would you then consider the vegan majority being impatient with, and mocking the meat-eating minority then be a good and right thing?

Why can’t people eat different things? No one freaks out if someone doesn’t eat broccoli, or mushrooms…

By: Simon

Simon — Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:42:52 +0000

I don’t know what reactions Zed’s been getting but perhaps it’s something along the lines of mocking or exasperation at having to accomodate a special diet. Some people are just rude though and I don’t think they’re like that BECAUSE they eat meat.

Ray might have a point there though. Though I’ve never been in that situation I can easily believe it happens a lot.

It just annoys me becuase I pretty much don’t care what other people do as long as it doesn’t effect other people (or me). I think it’s wrong for someone else to critise my diet if it’s not effecting them

By: Ray

Ray — Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:41:55 +0000

social events around food are being planned … and watch what comes up in people’s reactions

I donlt think I’m alone in feeling that the problem is not the food per se; it’s that everything always has to be done on the vegans’ terms, which breaks fairly ingrained conventions of reciprocal hospitality. When you visit vegans, you have to eat vegan food. But when vegans visit you, you have to provide vegan food.

By: Zed

Zed — Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:38:11 +0000

Yes, some annoying vegans exist, but as a mostly vegan, I can assure you there are plenty of meat-eaters who’re full of themselves and preachy at others, too, Simon. If that seems hard to believe, try going vegan for a month, without bringing it up beyond where it becomes necessary because social events around food are being planned (and many many of them are around food) and watch what comes up in people’s reactions…

By: John

John — Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:17:37 +0000

At first glance I was puzzled by her argument that the state of the meat business had improved too, but a closer read second time round clarified things for me.She’s really just noting that there’s much more awareness on the part of consumers, producers and retailers alike of the different qualities of produce available and the importance of distinguishing between them so that consumers know what they’re buying.Not everyone cares enough about the difference to always buy top-end produce, but for those who really want to - and can afford to pay a premium for the privilege - it’s easier to identify and purchase the best quality produce at a supermarket nowadays than was the case even a decade ago. I think that’s a fair observation.

By: simon

simon — Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:42:18 +0000

I noticed the article too and it grabbed my attention mostly because a lot of veggies seem full of themselves and get preachy at others. Also, as the article claims the habitants of latin areas think, not eating meat it frankly bizarre.

It’s nice that she was so honest and basically went back because you just can’t beat meat. I did think she over did the “Meat is so much healtier/ethical nowdays” thing. I don’t think it is MUCH different